Former union minister Dr. Subramanian Swamy stressed the need of `loyal’ and `commited’ Hindutwa based formation in the center for the next Loksabha. In an interview to Vishwa Samvada Kendra during his visit to Bangalore, he told Integral Humanism of Dindayal Upadhyaya is the way before us. Dr Swamy discussed on wide topics from Hindutva, economy to politics and corruption. Here is the transcript of the interview:VSK: Sir, you have worked as an economist, as a politician and as an academic personality for a long time. In this period, have you seen any noticeable change in the Hindu consciousness, firstly among the general public, political arena and in the intellectual field?
Dr. Swamy: There are two areas of change. The first is a vast change in the attitude amongst youth, when it comes to visiting temples, ashrams, celebrating festivals learning in depth about the scriptures etc. For example, the Siddhivinayaka Temple, where I have observed members of the younger generation stand in the queue for long, exhaustive hours, for obtaining darshan. The same is the case at KumbhMela, Sabarimala, etc. This is a welcome move, as it stands in stark contrast to the trend during the days of Jawharlal Nehru, when people dissociated themselves from Hinduism, in an attempt to project themselves as modern. They wanted to be modern, saying I don’t believe in all this hocus pocus. Now I find people going to Ashramas, to Swamijis, doing Yoga and everything associated with religion. People have even started doing Padyatras to Sabarimala.
Another change I have observed with regard to the Indian scenario is the vast acceptance and respectability of religious seers of Hinduism. People are shedding their reservation in approaching the spiritual seers for specific and general advice. Numerous magazines related to Hinduism, have also mushroomed up, which have invoked the Hindu interest by and large.
However, the area where Hindu society has to change is with regard to the mindset- the “Hindu-mind set”, which has not yet set in, for which I am campaigning vociferously. With regard to the Hindu mindset, there are two comparisons that can depict it best. When it comes to being the majority in society, the Hindus are gentle and timid like goats that serve no purpose. You can have 1000 goats. But when a tiger makes its appearance, the goats run helter skelter, whatever majority they enjoy.
Another comparison I would make regarding Hindus is with the “king of the forest”. Even if the Hindus have the potential and strength, they are like lions in a circus group- caged, under the mercy and control of wiry, whip cracking ring masters. They obey the minutest of commands, at the crack of a whip, even though they have the potential to kill him. This can be attributed to the human mind or mental set up and to rectify this hazardous condition, a Hindu Mental Revolution is vital.
An aspect about Sanatana culture is the spiritual arena, on which our ancestors focused. Contrary to the western leaders who decked themselves in silken robes and studded jewellery, our spiritual leaders have been clad in simple attires, mostly the Bhagwa. However globalization has made people materialistic, with the sole outlook in life being the garnering of wealth.
Do you think we can bring the Gurukula system back?
Gurukula system of education is a feasible one, but it will take time to implement this. The West has already started this, but not with the name Gurukula. They have introduced the system of a single tutor for a group of students. It is possible, but it will take time. We do not have teachers.
In your recent article published in DNA, you told Muslims of India should acknowledge their Hindu ancestry, and only then they can be accommodated in our society. Have you thought of any particular methodology to implement this?
I cannot implement this, unless I am in power. To implement this, you need to have a Parliamentary board. There is no absolute fundamental right to vote. Even today, if you don’t have a place of residence, you cannot vote. So there are restrictions. I would call for another restriction- that you accept your Hindustani identity. There is nothing unconstitutional in that. But this has to be passed as a law and for this; you need to be in power.
Another important factor is the collective vote of Hindus. If not the 83%, if at least 40% of the votes can be cast in favour of an all Hindu Party that remains loyal to the Hindu cause, there will be a change. If there is a loyal, committed Hindutva based formation is in Parliament tomorrow, it can be adopted.
In the last century, We have seen that social form of economy is collapsing down; Russia and China going away from that. We are also seeing protest against capitalism and corporate centered economy in US. As an economist, what reason you give to this and what alternative you suggest?
My alternative is again integral humanism. What is happening in the West is greed. The cause of the fall of western economy was due to their materialistic pursuits. What is happening in the West is due to greed. Everyone searches for shortcuts to earn money- the investors, bankers etc. For a materialistic society, like the West, into which we are being dragged into, money is everything. If they had given a little less importance to money, and gone in quest of knowledge, none of these people would have been unhappy. If you have made money more than what is required, make donations. Be a philanthropist. You earn respect that way.
The ideal society had a perfect blend of both spiritual and materialistic sides. The JanSangh thinker Deen Dayal Upadhyay, who was also the President of the party, had developed a thesis titled “Integral Humanism”, which emphasized on the progress of both material and spiritual sides on a balanced plane. Therefore conferring respect on a person solely on the basis of wealth was wrong.
So what the West has to learn is that it is not the Wall Street that is bad or Socialism that is good, but the very truth that money is not an end in itself. The craze for money has to go. This is the reason why foreigners flock to ashrams in India. Sai Baba Ashram at Puttaparthy, Ashram of Sri. Sri. Ravishankar teem with foreigners, because they have realized that money alone does not lead to happiness. ..Look what is happening in the west- Julia Roberts has converted to Hinduism. So did Steve Jobs. Have you thought why Yoga is being taught in the west? Why Sanskrit is being taught in America? Looking at all these, there is the need to educate our own people.
You have talked and written a lot about Sonia‘s background and he collection with anti-nationals. With all this, the general public seems to be non-responsive...
Why should they be responsive? Is the opposition responsive? I have challenged Sonia Gandhi’s affidavits as a candidate, stating that she has a degree in English from the University of Cambridge. I gave the opposition a letter, sent to me by the University of Cambridge saying there was no such student. Did anyone raise it?
So why blame the general public? Your Parliamentarians are not ready to raise it. Then why should the general public raise the issue? Newspapers are also afraid to publish the news.
What is the reason you attribute to this general apprehension?
Blackmail. Sonia Gandhi black mails people. She is a ruthless woman. And you blackmail only when you have something to hide. She can’t blackmail me.
So is there hope for the citizens?
Absolutely! I will not let go. Don’t worry(laughs). I know technology very well – Advantages of being a professor.
Coming to the 2G scam, what motivated you to take the case up?
The private secretary of PM, a senior IAS officer once came to see me at night. He was heartbroken and said he felt like committing suicide,over waht he witnessed in the telecom sector. That is how I began taking an interest. I sent the PM 5 letters. But the PM, a friend of mine never replied. Then I knew that something was seriously wrong and went to court.
In the meantime, I gathered that rupees 60,000 crore were distributed as bribe. Raja, Kannimozhi, Karunanidhi and Chidambaram have taken a share, but Sonia Gandhi has taken 36,000Cr. This way, if the country’s money is in the hands of private individuals, we will be ruined.
I also found out that 2 companies that paid bribe-Etisalat and Telenor are blacklisted companies. Etisalat is an ISI company and Telenor is a Chinese military company-which means the equipment is from Chinese military. The Home Ministry had made it clear that no business should be done with them.
Also the person who distributed the money, Sadiq Batcha has been killed. This is what has motivated me. This is the biggest corruption in the history of India- even in the history of the world.
And is there a way we can get back the money?
Sure! Attach their properties. Once she gets convicted, I’ll file another suit and get her property attached. Her property all over the world will be attached. But then she will say she is an Italian. (laughs)
But what when enemies are formidable? You use to tell that Sonia Gandhi is backed strongly by Christian organizations. Your campaign against her is being termed by them as “personal vendetta”. They have started playing the victim, especially with your letter recently to the Muthoot group.
I was once called to address a meeting in Malappuram, to install a statue of Ezhuthachan, the great Malayalam poet, who translated Ramayana into Malayalam. The Hindus who wanted to install the statue, were denied permission, saying it mounts up to Moorthy PoojaSince 20 years, Hindus have not been allowed to hold public meetings in Malappuram, as they are not granted permission. In our own land, we now have Dar Ul Islam. Hence I was called to address the meeting, because they knew that if i was denied permission, I would go to court. I held the public meeting too. I have not seen so much of fear, in our own country, where Muslims are in majority, even if it is a pocket, minorities there have no future.
However, you see that the Mulims are very clear in what they want. I don’t blame them. But the Hindu is confused, including BJP. They all want to be super secular. This is the reason I work with Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh and Viswa Hindu Parishad. Secularism exists because the Hindu has agreed to it. Tomorrow if the Hindu decides, there shall be no secularism, it shall not be there. Islamic terrorism has to be answered.
There are many things the Hindu does not know, the Muslims do not know. Masjid is not a religious place- It is a building for saying Namaz. But the Namaz can be said anywhere. So if there is a Masjid is on top of a temple, you must move the Masjid from there.
It is important that the Hindus become ‘Viraat Hindus’. When I say Viraat, it does not mean going against anyone or anything. It means defending your faith. Learn Sanskrit, know the true history of your country. If you are attacked, you must attack back. You must not hesitate. And the retaliation should be 10 times more.
I cite the instance of Swami Vivekananda who said that a suffering Hindu, because of his identity, anywhere, should receive all support from his brethren. If you see any other Hindu suffering, because he is a Hindu, in Pakistan, Bangladesh, Malaysia, anywhere, you must get together and say “No! This will not be permitted.” Once the strength is displayed, there will be nothing to deter you from the path. For example the Communal Violence Bill- it is obviously directed against the Hindus. It is the most scandalous bill possible. But the opposition against it is not strong yet. The attitude is “let it be, as long as I am not affected”. The right kind of mindset- “Pravrithi/ Chetana/ Sanghya”- that remains absent.
Enemies are not formidable at all. Our mind is weak, which is why they look formidable. If the Hindus unite tomorrow, the Christians will come to us with folded hands. Take the example of the Christian Professor, whose hands were chopped off by Muslim groups in Kerala. Why did they not show how formidable they were, at that moment? They did not. They just succumbed. Even with regard to the Muthoot Corporation, nothing happened, inspite of protests by Hindu groups in Kerala. So I wrote a letter and they backed off.
Anna Hazare, who is heading one of the anti-corruption movements in the country, was first branded as an “RSS Agent” by Digvijay Singh. Later he withdrew his statement. Again he has come up with the same statement. Why do you think there are these double standards?
Anna Hazare wanted to claim that he is secular, a mass leader. Digvijay Singh wanted to sensitize the issue because all of Anna Hazare’s followers are Naxalites, Maoists and Leftists- Prashanth Bhushan, Arvind Kejriwal. Swami Agnivesh is now out of the team. The only person who is efficient is Kiran Bedi. Digvijay Singh’s statement about RSS is a warning to the members of Anna’s team to be careful. Not that Digvijay does not know that RSS is not controlling Anna.